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Thread: What a joke..

  1. #1
    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
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    What a joke..

    (CNN) -- The Sunday morning service at Fellowship Church in Dallas, Texas, was humming along with hymns and prayers when something unusual happened.

    The lights in the sanctuary suddenly dimmed, and members of the church hushed as they peered at a pulpit shrouded in darkness. The parishioners then erupted in cheers and whistles as Ed Young Sr., the church's senior pastor, emerged from the darkness with a microphone in hand.

    "Please be seated, be seated," Young said as he grabbed the Bible. "How are you guys doing today? Doing well?"

    Young delivered his sermon, but he couldn't hear or see his congregation respond: He wasn't physically there.

    Young's parishioners were instead looking at a high-def video image of their pastor beamed into their sanctuary from a "mother" church in Grapevine, Texas.

    Young is part of a new generation of pastors who can be in two places at one time. They are using technology -- high-def videos, and even holograms -- to beam their Sunday morning sermons to remote "satellite" churches that belong to their congregation.

    To read more stories with faith angles, go to the CNN Belief Blog

    Spreading the gospel, or distorting it?

    Young, whose congregation has about 20,000 members spread across five churches, said his image is so lifelike that some visitors forget he's not there.

    "It's so real that people have come up after service to see me and [other] people are saying, 'Dude, he is on video,' '' he said.
    It's a revolution. It's a very different way to spread the gospel.
    -- Rev. Geoff Surratt

    Geoff Surratt, author of "The Multi-site Church Revolution," said at least 3,000 churches nationwide use some variation of high-def video to spread their pastor's Sunday morning sermons.

    Some broadcast hologram images of pastors that float suspended in the air behind the pulpit, while others project images of ministers on large video screens.

    A church can spend anywhere from $50,000 to $2 million on the high-def technology, he said. But the cost may be worth it because the technology allows churches to reach more people without constructing new buildings.

    "It's a revolution," said Surratt, pastor at Seacoast Church in South Carolina, which broadcasts its pastor's Sunday sermons to 13 locations. "It's a very different way to spread the gospel."

    It may not be a better way, though, said the Rev. Thomas Long, a nationally recognized authority on preaching and author of "Preaching from Memory to Hope."

    Preachers who don't think they need to be physically present in their church should ask how they would feel if they were forced to preach to high-def images of their congregation every Sunday morning, Long said.

    "There's something about embodiment -- that the person who delivers the sermon is actually there -- that's important," Long said. "It's important in the same way that someone physically visits someone in a hospital or buries a loved one -- they don't fax it in."

    Long said the New Testament accounts of Jesus' interaction with people show him constantly touching and being physically present with people.

    "We don't think God sent a message to us; God sent a person and the word became flesh," he said.

    High-def sermons: good theology and good business?

    Young, the Texas pastor, also invoked the New Testament to support his method of preaching.

    Young said Biblical church leaders like the Apostle Paul wrote letters that were then distributed to churches across the Roman Empire. The church leaders weren't physically present when those letters -- some of which were later included in the New Testament -- were read aloud, but that didn't make the message any less profound, he said.

    "All we're doing is putting high definition, cool technology behind something that's as old as the New Testament," said Young, who also blogs, has a Facebook page and uses Twitter.

    However, he said pastors must be careful not to be seduced by the "black hole" of technology.

    "If you have a great purpose behind it, go for it," Young said. "But if you're just trying to be cool -- it has to have a theology and a meaning behind it."

    Young said his church is often filled with so many people that even when members come to hear him preach in person, they have trouble seeing him. They end up looking at screens in the sanctuary.

    "I don't think you lose a thing," Young said. "I would argue you could see me better when you're at a venue made for screens."

    Why churches are becoming more visual

    Dave Ronne, a pastor at a Georgia church that uses video technology, said contemporary churchgoers are accustomed to getting messages via screens because "we live in an audio-visual society."

    Ronne is the pastor of redemptive art at 12 Stone Church in Lawrenceville, Georgia. He easily quotes scripture in one sentence, then talks about "building out the content and branding" for his church.

    "We're all geared to watch screens now," Ronne said. "Everybody has a plasma TV or a flat screen at home. We're just leaning into where the culture is now."
    It's important in the same way that someone physically visits someone in a hospital or buries a loved one -- they don't fax it in.
    --Rev. Thomas Long
    RELATED TOPICS

    * Religion
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    Broadcasting virtual Sunday morning sermons actually helps preachers become better pastors, Ronne said. Instead of preaching at three or four services each Sunday, they do one. That leaves them more time to get to know their congregation and their staff.

    "Most pastors would just kill to have additional hours in the week to sit down and have a cup of coffee with someone," Ronne said.

    The technical demands of beaming video to remote locations are not difficult, Ronne said.

    The church's video team first captures a high-def image of the pastor's sermon on a QuickTime file. They then import that file to Final Cut Pro software before exporting the file to an external hard drive.

    The final step is physically transporting the external hard drives to 12 Stone's remote church locations, Ronne said. The tech team takes two hard drives -- one for backup in case of emergency -- to the church's satellite campuses about a week before the next Sunday service to give the technical team time to work out any bugs.

    "All of our multisite congregations are a week behind," Ronne said. "The sermons are delayed."

    The process may sound impersonal, but churches that use high-def video technology say congregants don't have to lose touch with ministers. They hire other church pastors to serve their satellite locations by leading Sunday morning services and meeting with people afterward.

    Those ministers simply exit the stage when it's time for the sermon and video screens to descend over the altar.

    Mark Esposito, who has watched virtual sermons at a satellite church in Dallas, said he prefers watching sermons via video because it's more intimate.

    Esposito is a member of Fellowship Church, where he has listened to Young preach for the last five years.

    "I feel closer to the sermon than I would if I ever attended in person," Esposito said. "The screen is so big; it's almost lifelike. I would rather see Ed [Young] on the big screen than somewhere live."

    Here to stay

    Whatever one may think of it, the high-def video technology may be here to say, said Dan Reiland, executive pastor of 12 Stone Church. Reiland said that when he started as a pastor 28 years ago, technology wasn't important for a church's growth.

    "The big cool deal was putting slides onto the screen behind worship songs," he said.

    He said that many churches now know that it is critical to hire good technical and creative staff. These churches produce short films and stage skits shown during the service, he said. Some even have recording studios.

    They also have a team of video editors, web designers and assorted creative people who know how to promote the church and make Sunday morning worship more appealing, he said.

    "We have 120 volunteers that do nothing but sound, light and film every Sunday," Reiland said.

    Some people may miss the days when they could go up to a pastor after a Sunday sermon and ask for a meeting. But pastors who have a gift for being accessible to their congregants will find a way to continue that, said Surratt, the author and pastor at Seacoast Church in South Carolina.

    A pastor's ability to connect with a church doesn't ultimately depend on glossy video. It revolves around character, Surratt said.

    "If you have a pastor that has challenges with ego and is disconnected [from his congregation]," he said, "he's going to be disconnected whether he has 100 people or 1,000 people."

    'Virtual preaching' transforms Sunday sermons - CNN.com

  2. #2
    Inactive Member Shooter's Avatar
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    Re: What a joke..

    Funny how the religion forum has become nothing but your forum to attack the Christian religion.

    It makes me sad to see such a young man devote so much time trying to tear down peoples faith. The fact is, the very people you are trying to desuade from the Christian religion pray for you, and your attacks on them strengthen their faith.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -Thomas Jefferson

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    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
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    Re: What a joke..

    I'm just the only one who posts on here, people can post whatever thread they wanting to, because they don't isn't my problem. I post my threads and post in them, see me going into the bible verse thread? No, because it's not some agenda out against Christians on this board or anything. I've never personally attacked anyone for believing what they do. I usually point out things within the religion that if I were a member of, would piss me off too, says a lot about your religion when the people are going to church to watch the pastor on a damn tv. They used to be a powerful figure in a community and religion, this takes that away and makes it a joke.

    Devote so much time? I've probably made under 100 posts in this forum altogether. I don't promote tearing down anyone's faith, I promote doubt and questioning. Nothing I've said isn't true, lay down the facts and if facts cause you to lose faith in what you believed before, that should tell you it was incorrect, wouldn't it? Let them pray, that's cool, it makes people feel good about their self without actually doing anything. I don't attack "anyone", I don't attack anything, I lay out facts and my opinion on the religion, people can take it however they want. If it strengthens their "faith", great. If it causes them to question, that's all I ask. As I've said several times, I couldn't care less what people personally believe, not one bit...just don't try to "save" people who don't want it, don't force it down a nations throat by influencing laws or putting it in public places that it has absolutely no business.

  4. #4
    Inactive Member Shooter's Avatar
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    Re: What a joke..

    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    As I've said several times, I couldn't care less what people personally believe, not one bit...just don't try to "save" people who don't want it, don't force it down a nations throat by influencing laws or putting it in public places that it has absolutely no business.
    Then by that same token, those atheist billboards should be taken down because it is a belief system...a religion of no God. Is it ok to force YOUR atheist belief on a country that is by far a majority of belief of some higher power? But that is a discussion for the POLITICAL forum.

    You talk about doubting and questioning...how bout stepping outside of your own little world and questioning how believers feel when we are pushed aside. If you are an atheist, fine...that is your belief. You complain nonstop that Christians are pushing their belief system on you, but if you would step back and look at yourself...YOU do the same thing back. I really have no problem with you being an atheist...i believe and thats all that really matters. It does sadden me...but that is just the Christian in me knowing what you are missing out on.

    Im just saying...maybe coming into a religion forum, where MOST people are Chistians...and calling a church a JOKE isnt the best choice of words. Be an atheist all you want, but have the same respect for Christians as you demand for your own belief.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -Thomas Jefferson

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    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
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    Re: What a joke..

    No, not by that same token. I've explained it a million times, slapping a sign up isn't forcing anything down anyones throat, it isn't when Christians do it either. Let whoever they want slap up a sign, that's not the problem.

    Again, I'm not personally attacking anyone, no ones trying to hurt anyone's feelings...never said anyone was stupid for believing what they do. I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic. Posting facts and my opinions on them on forum isn't forcing anything on anyone, my belief system doesn't try to influence laws or put it in schools or public places(with taxpayer money) where it doesn't belong. I think you're missing out too, free-thought and questioning is the most important thing a person can do.

    The church is a joke, what is the purpose of it? I'd think that you would think it is also, it makes the whole religion a joke when your place of worship is one big living room to watch a guy on TV. I don't demand respect, I couldn't care less if they respect what I believe, most don't respect anyone elses beliefs really...so it's useless to "demand" it. The only thing I demand is that they stop trying to control everyone elses lives because of what they think is right.

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    Inactive Member Shooter's Avatar
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    Re: What a joke..

    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    my belief system doesn't try to influence laws or put it in schools or public places(with taxpayer money) where it doesn't belong.
    When your belief system says that schools can teach the THEORY of evolution, and big bang are the way it all started, you are influencing.

    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    I think you're missing out too, free-thought and questioning is the most important thing a person can do.
    I'd like to know who said Christians don't have free-thought and the ability to question.

    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    The church is a joke, what is the purpose of it? I'd think that you would think it is also, it makes the whole religion a joke when your place of worship is one big living room to watch a guy on TV.
    Not my cup of tea, but church is (supposed to be) a place where people gather to talk about the Lord. I prefer my personal relationship with Jesus Christ to stay just that. Between Him and I.


    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    The only thing I demand is that they stop trying to control everyone elses lives because of what they think is right.
    And I'm sure Christians feel the same way about agnostics in that they want you to quit trying to control their live because of what you think is right.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -Thomas Jefferson

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    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
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    Re: What a joke..

    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
    When your belief system says that schools can teach the THEORY of evolution, and big bang are the way it all started, you are influencing.
    That'd make sense if it had anything to do with atheists/agnostics, but it doesn't. That's strictly science, just because it debunks the christian fairytales isn't our problem. It's PROVEN science that's backed up by mountains of facts and data, it [b]is[/i] how it happened...it's not a belief, it's fact, not "just a theory". Go read a little and learn what a scientific theory is.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
    Not my cup of tea, but church is (supposed to be) a place where people gather to talk about the Lord. I prefer my personal relationship with Jesus Christ to stay just that. Between Him and I.
    I always thought it was a place to gather and worship God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
    I'd like to know who said Christians don't have free-thought and the ability to question.
    When your religion tells you to believe this and not question or go to hell, then you don't have it. Sorry, sure you have the physical ability to do so, but your mind is shackled when you're given that ultimatum.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
    And I'm sure Christians feel the same way about agnostics in that they want you to quit trying to control their live because of what you think is right.
    When we try to control anything, then their feelings can actually make sense. We don't try to pass laws based on our religious "morals" to try to control others, that's Christians.

  8. #8
    Inactive Member Monkeyhead's Avatar
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    Re: What a joke..

    Guess that proves it, we all came from monkeys because R13 said so lol. Didn't this coversation happen before.
    crack is whack

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    Inactive Member 1inStripes's Avatar
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    Re: What a joke..

    I like how theory = fact in some cases but not all.
    "Call me crazy, but I want to buy the Dallas Cowboys end zone and have the star right at the foot of my bed. That way when I score, I can spike the ball right on the star!" -Woody Paige, Around the Horn 10.9.08

  10. #10
    Inactive Member Shooter's Avatar
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    Re: What a joke..

    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    That'd make sense if it had anything to do with atheists/agnostics, but it doesn't. That's strictly science, just because it debunks the christian fairytales isn't our problem. It's PROVEN science that's backed up by mountains of facts and data, it [b]is[/i] how it happened...it's not a belief, it's fact, not "just a theory". Go read a little and learn what a scientific theory is.
    HAHAHAHA....funny. Theory is just that...a hypothesis that has not been proven wrong...or right for a certain period of time. Thousands of years of religious belief have also stood that test of time.





    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    When your religion tells you to believe this and not question or go to hell, then you don't have it. Sorry, sure you have the physical ability to do so, but your mind is shackled when you're given that ultimatum.
    I happen to be of the mind that The Bible and Science can both go together. I have no shackles. I have the ability to believe that there is more than just myself. You on the other hand are the shackled one in that science tells you that you are nothing more than a monkey that will turn to dust one day.





    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    When we try to control anything, then their feelings can actually make sense. We don't try to pass laws based on our religious "morals" to try to control others, that's Christians.
    John Adams once said "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
    Boy those words are ringing true.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -Thomas Jefferson

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